This conversation questions the fact that there is no matter in the contemporary development of technology and defends the opposite: there would be no first-order aesthetic experience by which matter seems to have disappeared in favor of intangibles without huge data centers, transoceanic cables and an entire underlying material infrastructure. The same in which the bodies violated by technology in capitalist hands are, in fact, matter; namely, there is exploitation and expropriation thanks to the latest generation digital tools. The way in which the political struggle is understood will be decisive, and will depend on the human agency that we are capable of deploying to appropriate technology in a sovereign way as a people. Undoubtedly, art is one of the most important tools for this aesthetic of liberation: it awakens all our creativity, talent and ingenuity, that which generates a value, again, material; or neomaterial.